tEEching

[music]

Lea Alcantara: This is the ExpressionEngine podcast episode number 46 the re-launch episode! I’m your host, Lea Alcantara, and I’m joined by my brand new co‑host ‑‑ drum roll please ‑‑ Emily Lewis!

Emily Lewis: [laughs] Woo! Hello!

Lea: This episode is sponsored by train‑ee.com. New to ExpressionEngine and need a jump-start? train‑ee.com provides ExpressionEngine tutorials, books, screencasts, and in‑person classes. train‑ee.com is an official Ellis Lab training partner, and has provided training for organizations like Garmin, The United States Federal Reserve, and the University of Georgia. Get your EE lightbulb moment at train‑ee.com.

The ExpressionEngine podcast would also like to thank Pixel & Tonic for being our major sponsor of the year. So, we’ve got a lot of items to go through today. New co‑host…

Emily: Yeah.

Lea: New site…

Emily: And new sponsors which is pretty exciting too.

Lea: Exactly. I’m so, so grateful for the ExpressionEngine community and all the support we’ve got from everyone.

Emily: It’s been great, and as the person who’s had to keep quiet and watch this from the outside, it’s really warmed my heart. Everyone is just so supportive in this community. It’s just fantastic.

Lea: Yeah, and as for me, it’s been really hard keeping you a secret ‑

Emily: [laughs]

Lea: …because I’ve really wanted to shout from the rooftops how cool my new co‑host is. I hope that the ‘guess the co‑host contest’ eased you in a little bit, or at least the audience, to figure out who you might be and what you’re like. It’s been interesting getting some of the entries for the contest. Emily here actually got Co’s on pretty much all the entries, so we got a little bit of a laugh at some of the guesses.

Emily: Yes, I was particularly amused ‑ my boyfriend was guessed.

Lea: Yeah!

Emily: That was really funny.

Lea: I thought that was like, wow ‑ that’s pretty close over there.

Emily: Really close.

Lea: So, we’ll be revealing the ‘guess the co‑host contest’ at the end of the podcast.

Emily: Great!

Lea: So where do you want to start?

Emily: Well, I’d love to just do quick introductions in case anyone who’s listening doesn’t know who I am. First of all, I also want to thank you, Lea, for reaching out to me and asking me to participate.

Not only was I really honored to be invited, but it has been so nice working with you getting the site up. You are on my level in terms of organization. It’s awesome. It’s so refreshing to work with someone who is organized and has a plan, on top of being a really great designer. So it’s been a real pleasure and I thank you very much.

Lea: Thank you.

Emily: So yeah, as for me, my short little story is that I like web standard semantics and long walks on the beach.

Lea: [laughs]

Emily: But seriously, I’ve been working on the web for about thirteen years now, if my math is right. Most of my career I worked in the corporate world. I either worked for small mid‑sized companies, or family‑owned companies, or large Fortune 500 companies. I got really tired of the bureaucracy of the corporate world, and I decided to go freelance last year.

It’s almost been a year now, and so I’m still learning the ins‑and‑outs of managing my own schedule and clients. My focus is on the front‑end, which is probably why I’m a big fan of ExpressionEngine, because, as a designer, it’s just so friendly to work with. I really love standards, web standards.

I’m a huge fan of semantics and structured data, which is why I wrote a book, called "Microformats Made Simple", which talks about one of the standard patterns for semantic markup.

Throughout my whole career I’ve really been a huge believer in sharing knowledge. Not just sharing what I know, but then being open to learning what other people know. So I run a local user group here in Albuquerque, which is where I live. I teach for the University of New Mexico’s continuing education program.

I write whenever I can. I also do one‑on‑one training. So being a co‑host of this podcast is such a perfect fit, because not only will I get to share some of what I know, but I think I’m going to learn so much about ExpressionEngine, and web development and design in general. I’m really, really excited.

Lea: Yeah. I have to say, the past year, when I was with Ryan and Dan, co‑hosting, I actually learned so much from the guests, just discussing each other’s techniques. I hope our audience gets to join in on that, as well.

Emily: I hope so, too.

Lea: I think that transitions pretty well over, regarding our topic today.

Emily: Oh yeah, I totally planned it like that. [laughs]

Lea: [laughs] …which is, ExpressionEngine education.

Emily: TEEching!

Lea: Yeah, we were trying to figure out, what kind of puns can we throw in here?

Emily: [laughs]

Lea: Well, TEEching came naturally. Emily here just mentioned that she teaches at a university, and is very well‑versed in training people and so forth. So am I: I taught at MacEwan University here in Edmonton ‑‑ design topics and things like that. Always at the forefront of my mind, not just teaching just students or myself, it’s about trying to figure out what’s the next step?

How do I constantly keep ahead of all this information that’s being put forth towards here? Anything to do with the web, it’s pretty much self‑taught, because all of this is new products or new information, wouldn’t you say?

Emily: I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I’m self‑taught, although I did spend some time getting the piece of paper that I thought I needed for my résumé√©. But that was ‑‑ oh god ‑ nine years ago?

Lea: Yeah.

Emily: So what I’ve learned today ‑ especially with HTML5, and CSS3, and then of course ExpressionEngine 2 came out last year… There’s just so much you have to keep on top of. I’m in a constant learning phase. In fact, the website you designed, I tried to do things that pushed my limits in the HTML and CSS, so I could learn, because it’s not often that we get the projects that let us stretch our boundaries.

Lea: Yeah, I totally agree. I always like to jump on projects and clients that allow you to stretch your boundaries. Sometimes it depends, because some clients don’t really care, [laughs] as long as it works for them. Sometimes I like those clients, because I just do whatever I want, and as long as it renders in their browser, and they’re able to easily update their site, they’re like "well, you used the HTML5 question mark? Whatever…"

Emily: [laughs]

Lea: So when you first discovered ExpressionEngine, you thought to yourself this is something I need to learn, this is something I need to use for client work. What kind of resources and steps did you take to teach yourself ExpressionEngine?

Emily: Well, I was very lucky. It wasn’t actually me who knew that I needed to learn ExpressionEngine. It was my boss, Ian, at the time. He had stumbled upon ExpressionEngine and saw the potential it had for our team.

We were a really small team of people working for a large division of Pitney‑Bowes. He said, "I want you to learn ExpressionEngine. The best way to learn it is to practically build something with it." He said, "just go make your own blog using ExpressionEngine, take a week and figure out how it all works."

So that’s what I did. At the time ‑‑ this was three‑and‑a‑half, four years ago ‑‑ the main resources that I could find online were Michael Boyink’s. He had a series of online tutorials in which he built a church website. I walked through those, and they were fantastic.

I think that was the ‑‑ I’m guessing ‑‑ the beginning of all the material that he’s put out from train‑ee.com. His book is fantastic but the tutorials were everything I used to get started. Because I didn’t have the money at the time to buy Ryan’s stuff. Just the tutorials.

Lea: Yeah ‑ I think for me, it was definitely all the blog posts. I don’t think I actually identified that it was actually Mike’s stuff. It was just a bunch of cobbled‑together blog posts, and reading and re‑reading the documentation, and participating in the forums. When I look back ‑‑ and that was, for me, five or six years ago ‑‑ when you look back and think how little there was.

Emily: Yeah, it’s amazing how much is available now!

Lea: Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, you mentioned Mike, who sponsored this episode, but then there was also Ryan, who started EE screencasts. He was the first, I believe, who started the video side of the tutorials, because previously it was just text, and reading through all of that.

Emily: Those are so useful.

Lea: Absolutely.

Emily: I tend to be a person who learns by reading. I’m one of those kinds of people but I know people who learn by watching. Video screencasts like Ryan put out there are invaluable. Especially because it puts it so much more in context if you can’t do that by reading a blog post or just something that’s text‑based.

Lea: Yeah, for sure. To me, it seems like Mike and Ryan were the pioneers of ExpressionEngine education outside of forums and documentation. But throughout the years, both Ryan and Mike have expanded their classes to go beyond the basics.

Emily: Right. I was just on Mike’s site… Well, of course he and his family is traveling across the country right now, which means they’re doing a lot of those on‑site classroom courses that people can sign up for. But he’s also partnered with Eric Reagan to do an advanced classroom‑type course on building add‑ons for ExpressionEngine.

Lea: Yeah, and I think that really shows the transition over the years. We were kind of almost all beginners, a few years ago. So the tutorials were targeted towards…

Emily: …where we were.

Lea: Yeah, exactly. And so in the next five years, now it’s heading towards the advanced section. I know that Ryan has ‑ and Mark Huot wrote that thing for Mijingo about security ‑‑ security ExpressionEngine ‑‑ and a whole bunch of more advanced techniques beyond just getting the site up. Which is very, very nice.

Emily: Well, it’s also nice to see ‑ it just reflects the kind of people and their level of investment in the community ‑ that, for example, both Ryan and Mike, having been pioneers, are still heavily invested in education. They still see the value in supporting the community with information to help us all use this great tool. That’s something that’s really impressive over several, several years it’s not a flash the pan kind of thing.

Lea: Yeah. Which gives me a lot of confidence in ExpressionEngine because the community is so invested in it. I’m really actually quite glad that more advanced classes are becoming available because again, I feel like I’ve grown with this community.

As I’ve moved past the basics, there’s so many different sites and so many different needs that it’s just nice to have that extra step to figure out how do I make it more secure, how do I create a basic add‑on if I don’t need to say hire someone for $5,000 to do a super advanced add‑on or anything like that but, what If I just wanted to create an accessory so I could have tutorials available for my clients? Which definitely is a little bit more beyond the basics.

Beyond just Ryan and Mike, there’s a new player in town for education

Emily: Oh right, right this is pretty exciting. Jay Barclay, he runs Creat‑ee.com and they recently became an official community partner for Expression Engine for education in training.

I actually had the pleasure of meeting Jay this past March at South by Southwest in Austin and we didn’t have too much time to talk but it was just immediately apparent to me how passionate he is about education.

He worked in academia I guess in his previous career or concurrently with being a web professional. Not only has he been putting together some really quality materials for Creat‑ee like online webinars some of which are free, but also online courses that you can learn everything from the basics to advanced. I think his recent offering is something that’s focused on E‑commerce.

One of the things I think is pretty cool is he also incorporates education about web fundamentals like HTML and CSS. Expression Engine is such a designer friendly tool. If you can wield your HTML and CSS with power you can really utilize Expression Engine so nicely compared to other systems. If you have good fundamentals in those areas you can do even more, so I love that he’s got online tutorials, video tutorials on those topics as well

Lea: Yeah, I totally agree. Not to dis any other CMS’s, they’re completely fine. It’s just that with ExpressionEngine…. You invest in learning all these

Best practices for web standards.

Emily: Right.

Lea: And then with other CMS’s it’s like "OK, just forget that now, forget it."

[laughter]

Lea: Which is so weird to me. You spend all these years reading "A List Apart," subscribing to .net mag, or whatever. You’re practicing and doing all these best practices. I’ve noticed with other CMS’s, of course this is not true for all CMS’s, but with some CMS’s, basically they force you to say, "Just forget what you learned and be OK with middle ground code."

But with ExpressionEngine what I like is that you can be as anal retentive and perfectionist about your front end code and it will produce that code for you if you want it to.

Emily: Yeah, I think that was theme that I walked away from last year’s EECI in San Francisco. That it’s like the OCD developer’s tool of choice because it really lets you get so detailed if you want to; have so much fine level control.

Lea: Yeah, absolutely. Every single thing, if you want it to render perfectly, ExpressionEngine’s templating system allows you to do that.

Emily: So I do think for that reason it’s hugely important that ExpressionEngine education not only focus on using ExpressionEngine or developing for it, but also good best practices for building solid markup and CSS.

Lea: Yeah. So, have you ever had to teach anyone yourself ExpressionEngine techniques or how to do it?

Emily: I haven’t. I almost wish this podcast was a week later because I currently have a one‑on‑one student who I’ve been helping with HMTL and CSS. He originally wanted to convert what he had built into a WordPress theme. I do instruct in WordPress for the local UNM, so it’s something that I do and don’t hate me…

[laughter]

Emily: So we started on some of that and, nothing against WordPress, but for him it was a little counterintuitive. So he came to me last week when we had our training session and said I’d really like to start learning ExpressionEngine. That’s what we start next week.

I’m not quite sure how I’m going to approach it other than I think I’m going to take a cue from Michael. He did an advance… I forget the exact terminology but he did a full day workshop at last year’s EECI. I attended it mostly because I wanted to reassure myself that myself teaching had actually taught me good practices.

Lea: Yep.

Emily: But also it was great to watch him teach. He’s very good and really practical. I think I’m just going to try and take my student through a project and go from beginning to end, almost following, even Ryan’s book, the "Expression Engine 2: A Quick Start Guide" …

Lea: Yeah.

Emily: It says, "Here’s the project. We’re just going to start from the beginning and finish it." So, I think, that’s the approach I’m going to take, and I’ll see how it goes.

Lea: So what do you think are the challenges of being a teacher in a technological field such as this?

Emily: Well, from an institutional perspective, with UNM, their continuing education program, there’s a lot of bureaucracy and red tape …

Lea: Yeah.

Emily: Which is hugely challenging especially for someone like me who recently tried to get away from that, and, intentionally, went freelance. And now I found myself drowning in it.

Lea: [laughs]

Emily: But the challenge is, is have a classroom of up to 20 students and not all of them are at the same level.

Lea: Yeah.

Emily: And you have to teach to the lowest common denominator. There’s no other way about it, and that’s frustrating when you have students in your class who are really picking this up. They’re earnest and eager.

You’re starting to see that what you remember when you were learning, that little bit of spark of passion, that "Oh, my gosh, I think I’m going to really love doing this for my life‑long career."

And then you have the students, and I’m not going to lie, I have students who struggle with even just saving files and working on a computer.

Lea: Yeah.

Emily: It’s disheartening. That’s the only way of putting it.

And it’s one of the reasons why one‑on‑one training is something I plan on pursuing more, because then you get that connection with someone who you can really make a difference and you can cater your training or teaching to what they’re looking for and what their level is.

Lea: Yeah, that was my experience too when I was teaching at McEwen. I didn’t teach any ExpressionEngine there. I had planned to, but just like you mentioned, when I was put into the reality of a different learning levels I had to pare things down. So I had to cut that from my own curriculum. I couldn’t get there.

Well I, actually, did a demo of ExpressionEngine just to show them, here’s how a CMS works. But I couldn’t, actually, get to that point for teaching them. It was a little bit sad because there were a couple of students who were like, "I’d like to try this." And I’m like, "Well I don’t have the resources and time to do that."

The students that I thought, or at least in my experience, did well were the ones that reached out to me after class so they could have that one‑on‑one, because, really, that one‑on‑one training really gets you to focus on that particular student’s strengths and weaknesses.

And that particular project’s strengths and weaknesses. So that’s a challenge for any type of education that’s a formal education like a university. There are so many things that you have to consider when teaching to someone.

And you can’t please everyone, too, because some people do enjoy that group atmosphere. Some people enjoy the one‑on‑one, and when you’re dealing with a vast amount of learning challenges, you have to try to hit for the middle. Sometimes you have to ask "What is the middle?"

Emily: Yeah, it’s definitely something that gives me a lot of respect, not only for just teachers in general because honestly I’m exhausted, anytime I have a class I’m drained completely.

So anyone who does that for a living, my hat is off to you. But, it gives me a lot of respect for someone like Michael Boyink, having had first hand sat in one of his classes. He keeps such a very level not only attitude, but if there’s a student who is struggling it doesn’t offset the rest of the students who are in the class.

He comes in there and his wife Crissa, I guess she typically sits in. She certainly did that day. She’s also available to assist, as well. It just sort of keeps it from ever getting to a point that I’ve noticed in some of my classes when I have some students who are really struggling and then there are others who are far ahead, it creates a sense of anxiety almost, because some students aren’t getting it and some are kind of like, "Oh my God, can we move on?"

So I have a lot of respect for a teacher who is able to keep the tone of an on‑site class even so everyone can learn and feel good about the process of learning.

Lea: Yeah and that’s why I think also, too, that in our particular industry we’re unique in that we have the best of both worlds. Like, we have these classes where we try our best to do things in person, but we have such a plethora of online resources. So that if you’re confused about something in class, there is a webinar or a video, screencast that you can just refer to on your own time and watch someone redo it.

Because I think that’s one of the challenges of teaching a class in person, the student doesn’t go home and review the video because there’s so much information to pack into it.

So in some ways that’s why a screencast or webinar is a really powerful tool because you can refer back to it if you didn’t get something the first time.

Emily: Right, not to mention being able to visually see what’s happening‑ to make that connection.

Lea: Yeah, exactly, because sometimes, again, there’s that student anxiety over "I didn’t get it the first time."

Emily: And students don’t always like to raise their hands, they don’t like to admit when they have questions.

Lea: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It’s funny, that’s what I noticed when I was teaching, that they didn’t raise their hands, but once I went towards them one‑on‑one, when I was just walking to each student, suddenly all the questions start flowing, out of seemingly nowhere. Any more thoughts?

Emily: One of the things that I’ve discovered through running the local user group that I run, here in Albuquerque. I’ve been working from home for almost seven years now, for myself now, but previously for other companies. I can tend to be like the person who doesn’t shower for four days. I don’t bathe, and I don’t go outside. I’m like, "What happened? What day is it?"

In running the user group, I’ve discovered the importance of the community, the social community that you have in your local area, or town, or even the EE community. If you get a chance to attend conferences, or meet‑ups, or whatever, you really should consider it, because I have discovered that the first couple times are the social introduction sort of things, which can be difficult for some people.

But, after that, you start learning things. You’ll learn not only who, in your community, knows different things, that you can either go to for assistance, or can subcontract if you’re freelancing, someone to go to. They might be tied into the jobs in your market, or whatever.

But these face to face, meet up social gatherings, education comes through it. It’s a different kind of education, but it makes you realize that you have other people in your neighborhood or your city, that are passionate about the same things you are. Once you make those connections, they become resources, as well, just like Twitter can be a resource if you get stuck on something, or have questions.

I would just encourage people. I bring this up because my student brought this up last week. He was like, "I was up until 2:00 in the morning. It was on this things that ended up being so small." I was like, "Well, I was up at 2:00 last week. You should have just hit me up on chat. I would completely have put you in the right direction."

It’s starting to embrace that mentality, that you’re not an island. You do have other people that are absolutely willing to help you learn, and get better at what you do.

Lea: Absolutely. If you have those opportunities to go to a meet up, definitely go. I remember, in EECI we were just a whole bunch of people just chatting. You just learn so much over, "I was trying to do this, and I couldn’t do it." And then someone had already done it, so they’d immediately tell you, "Well, you just do this, this, and this."

It’s fantastic, because some things that are obvious to you aren’t obvious to others, and blah, blah, blah. You just never get to that point unless you ask, or you mingle. It’s one of those things where you feel almost threatened to ask the questions. Sometimes just showing up to these meet ups and listening, just listening, gets you a lot of things.

Emily: I couldn’t agree more. I’m a big fan of community involvement, where you can.

Lea: That’s pretty much it, in terms of ExpressionEngine education. Let’s talk a little bit about the future of this podcast, and some of the things that we’re planning for it.

First of all, one of the newer things that we’re planning with this podcast is, we will try very, very hard to make sure we have a show every other week. It will be released every other Thursday at 11:00 A.M. Mountain, 1:00 P.M. Eastern time.

The schedule will be put up on the website, so if there’s any confusion over when things will be, it’s going to be updated there. If we have to change a particular schedule, that’s also going to be updated on the calendar, as well.

Emily: You can subscribe to our schedule. We’ll have a link to Google Calendar, which we will also update if things change. If you’re subscribed, you’ll get those updates.

Lea: Absolutely. Another thing is that we are going to try very hard to do is to try to figure out the topics ahead of time, as much as we can. If there’s a particular topic that you are interested in, it might be showing up in the calendar.

If it isn’t in the calendar, please feel free to contact us. Just click on the "Contact" link and give us a topic suggestion. We’re always open for different types of topics to talk about.

Emily: I guess we should also throw out our email address. If you don’t want to use the contact form, or you just want to shoot us an email with topic suggestions, it’s feedback@ee‑podcast.com.

Lea: Yep. One of the other things that we’re going to try to do: we’re going to try to have little segments in each of the podcasts. Maybe not every podcast, but we feel like it’s important to have different types of focuses, like a segment called Focus On Fundamentals that we’re going to mix in from time to time. Can you explain that a little bit, Emily?

Emily: In terms of the segments, we’re thinking of short‑format topics, just a couple of minutes to talk about something. The Focus on Fundamentals one is something that’s near and dear to my heart. I think Lea shares the same feeling as I do.

It’s 2011. HTML5 is getting a lot of press; so is CSS 3. I know I’m pretty excited about those things. Like we were talking, there’s so much more advanced material on ExpressionEngine available now.

All of that is hugely important, but what is also important is that we not forget, particularly in industry, where we have so many self‑taught people, that it’s important to focus on the fundamentals: the basics, the little things.

I know for myself, even being a self‑professed standardista, when things get hard, and I’m under the gun, and I’ve got a client breathing down my neck, it’ll be the first thing I forget about. I’ll be like, "I’ll just throw some divs in there and do image replacement." I’ll just do that.

The reality is, is that best practices, standards, fundamentals, all help us work better and more efficiently. They allow us to really take those advanced techniques, and build them on a solid foundation.

That’s something that we’re going to try to talk about in that segment. When we have it, we’ll just talk about small topics, very narrowly focused, about fundamentals. Fundamentals from HTML, or CSS, or even accessibility or standards; and then, of course, ExpressionEngine.

Of course, we’ll be picking some of those topics ourselves. Feel free, for our listeners too, if you have something small that might seem silly to you, send us a comment. I’ve written blog posts about the strong element. There’s nothing more fundamental than that, but I find it fascinating, and I think it’s important, so I’m excited to talk about those topics.

Lea: At least for me, I look at the ExpressionEngine podcasts as a web in development podcast with an EE focus. Most of us here are web designers and developers. There’s just so many things we can talk about. ExpressionEngine, obviously, but I also think it’s important for our audience of web designers and developers to be reminded, or have focus on fundamentals once in a while.

Emily: This is so silly. Bravo has this TV show called Tabitha’s Salon Makeover, and she brought in this guy. Apparently he’s like the Jeffrey Zeldman of the hair world. He comes in, and he talks to all of the people, and he goes, "If you want to be a great hairdresser, it’s a commitment to lifelong learning."

I was like, "Oh my God! It’s the same thing when you’re a web designer, or developer." If you want to do this for your career, if this is something you feel passionate about, which I know I certainly do, it’s a commitment to learning your whole life. It just is. I’m glad this podcast is going to support that.

Lea: Absolutely. One of the last new things that we’re going to try to do for the podcast is a segment called Unsung Heroes.

Basically, the concept is, we’d like to highlight ExpressionEngine designers or developers and their websites. Perhaps individuals or companies that aren’t as well‑known, but they’re churning out amazing items.

For example, I didn’t know who Don Rogerson was, but he was running the entire Suwannee University website. I definitely think that he’s an individual you should be able to highlight. We’d like to highlight more individuals like that, especially because they have so much to bring to the table as well.

Emily: They do. Just on a personal note, there’s someone in particular I have in mind. I’m not going to name names at this point. I’ve had an opportunity to talk to her before, and she’s a fantastic ExpressionEngine developer. But her opinion is that, "I know everything everyone else does."

I think everyone thinks that. They think they don’t have anything special to bring to the table. The reality is that, if you’ve been able to be successful, either on your own, or within a team, and utilize ExpressionEngine, it’s something that should be celebrated.

You should talk about your best practices, how it works for you, because you have no idea how you may be doing something that seems ordinary to you, how that could change somebody else’s development process.

Lea: Before we wrap up this inaugural re-launch episode, I’d love to the thank the sponsor for the Guess The Co‑Host contest, which is Mijingo and EECI 2011 in New York, who are providing amazing prizes, which include a whole bunch of Mijingo products and a free full ticket to EECI 2011.

Emily: I wish I could be eligible for the contest. [laughs]

Lea: I know! I paid full price. This prize pack is worth every penny. Without further ado, the Guess The Co‑Host winner is: John Henry Donovan!

Emily: Congratulations, John Henry!

Lea: Basically, I found this interesting random name word picker app online. I just plugged in a whole bunch of names who got your name correct, and pressed the random generator, and they chose John! So congratulations, John Henry, for being the winner of Guess the Co‑Host.

Emily: If I recall correctly, he got it earlier than some other folks. It wasn’t after all of the clues had been.

Lea: Exactly. That was legitimate, I think, before some of the more obvious clues got in there. That was a good guess.

Emily: Congratulations.

Lea: Excellent.

Before we go, I would love to thank our sponsors for this podcast, which include Train‑EE.com and Pixel & Tonic. Of course I’d also love to thank our partners, EllisLab; EngineHosting, who’s providing all the hosting, excellent hosting for our MP3s and our website; as well as Devot:ee, who’s plugging the ExpressionEngine podcasts on their site as well.

Emily: Thank you so much to all of them. All great organizations and companies.

Lea: Absolutely. I would also prompt you guys, if you want to have further information about the latest news and upcoming events for the EE podcast, please follow us on Twitter @eepodcast. You’ll get all the latest news, and events, and promos, and everything else that’s going to come up right over there.

Emily: Awesome.

Lea: That was the ExpressionEngine podcast. Until next time, bye.

Emily: Bye, everybody.

[music]